Spitfire MkII handling characteristics

[Spectre13]

Hey all, this is my first post on these boards, been reading around here and seems like a top notch and informative community.

1st a bit of background. I got into the electric r/c flyer scene about 2 years ago, starting on the 2 channel v-wings and super cub, bought a PZ Mustang P51D (love the Caddies) but held off flying it until i felt ready.

Now I ended up totalling the 'Stang on the 5th flight, motor cut off during a banking turn and a 100+ foot dead control nose dive into terra firma, but 'hey-ho' I thought, it's gonna happen, and didnt detract from my view of it as a great flyer and I intend on purchasing another one in the near future.

Now a friend of mine had a PZ Spit that he started flying at the same time I started flying the 'Stang. From the off he confirmed what I'd read on the old interweb that this is a better and more forgiving flyer than the 'stang, most of all a lot easier to hand launch, a gentle push rather than the baseball toss the 'stang needed.

I tried out his Spit, and found the controls a lot more responsive than the Mustang even on low rate which on my 1st flight I admit took me by surprise and almost caused a bit of a splash....almost ;). Anyone else who has owed both can confirm this?

Well unfortunately he crashed his Spit this morning, not unrepairable mind you although he reported to have experienced a similar issue as I had with my Mustang....motor cut off and complete loss of control, luckily he was only some 15 feet off the deck.

Has anyone else experienced these problems? I have thought of the obvious...poorly charged batteries etc but I have reused the same batteries charged in the same manner in other birds with no problems. I have even checked the GB on both birds (have read reports of the semi-enclosed GB's cracking) but no visible damage.

Any advise in the matter would be greatly appreciated as we both intend to be flying the PZ warbirds again in the very near future and wouldnt like to see the same problem occur if its a pilot error or bird issue that could be avoided.

Sorry for the essay length post btw :D

[ralphp]

Firstly welcome to the Squadron!:D
where a bunch of... well lets just say we like some "clean fun" and ALL are welcome!

If you look through the paperwork supplied with all the PZ's you'll find that when the batteries are low the first thing to go is the motor (so using the controls you can glide in)....this is the most common cause of a "down"

If you are experiance or having fun, your normally quite low, so recovery needs to be split second!

hope this helps and keep joining in......never to old or wise to learn!

[Anthony]

I've flown the P51 and Spitfire a fair bit now and have never come across the controls switching off... I've had the motor cutting out on me bacause I havn't landed when the power was getting low but the control surfaces still function properly. Are you sure you havn't pressed the shut-off switch on the controller?

I think the Mustang flies in a more direct way that the spit; the rate of roll is quicker and it doesn't float in the air like the spit on low power, and although the P51 is an inferior design to the spit it does appear to be better made and pulls out of dives and loops cleaner without any excess noise. :)

[ralphp]

[QUOTE=Anthony;1897]although the P51 is an inferior design to the spit it QUOTE]

I hope you mean the model and not the real thing? :Dour friends over the pond, will be upset!

[Anthony]

Nah the model... although the real thing is a german design with a British engine (cos the Allison engine was rubbish) so the Yanks have nothing to crow about! Ha :D

[Radweld]

In the Parkzone world, the design of the Spit is much better, in the Real word the P51 was a a mediocre machine until they fitted a Merlin into it lol.

Anyway, I digress. There are a couple of things to look out for.

1: check the batteries in the transmitter, the supplied AA batteries are a tad shorter than regular Duracell AA's and this can lead to random disconnects. Take the back off and every cell should be tight, if any fall out then try to bend the metal tabs out for that cell to get a better fit.

2: The stock molex battery connection in the model is terrible and really prone to random disconnects, this will cause the model to go dead in flight and most likely to a crash, I decided to fit Deans style connectors to my Spit to negate the chance of this happening again.

3: Were you shot down? not my 50 cal bullets but by someone on the same frequency? the 27Mhz band is pretty full and a kid with a toy car could be on the same frequency as your model, if there is interference, it will cause all manor of glitches.

Hope these tips help.

[Radweld]

Nah the model... although the real thing is a german design with a British engine (cos the Allison engine was rubbish) so the Yanks have nothing to crow about! Ha :D

Well originally the RAF wanted P40's but North American Aircraft said they could deliver the new plane instead.

"In 1939, shortly after World War II began, the British government established a purchasing commission in the United States, headed by Sir Henry Self. Along with Sir Wilfrid Freeman, who, as the "Air Member for Development and Production", was given overall responsibility for Royal Air Force (RAF) production and research and development in 1938, Self had sat on the (British) Air Council Sub-committee on Supply (or "Supply Committee"), and one of Self's many tasks was to organize the manufacture of American fighter aircraft for the RAF. At the time the choice was very limited: none of the U.S. aircraft already flying met European standards; only the Curtiss Tomahawk came close. The Curtiss plant was running at capacity, so even that aircraft was in short supply.

North American Aviation (NAA) was already supplying their Harvard trainer to the RAF, but were otherwise underutilized. NAA President "Dutch" Kindelberger approached Self to sell a new medium bomber, the B-25 Mitchell. Instead, Self asked if NAA could manufacture the Tomahawk under license from Curtiss.

Kindelberger replied that NAA could have a better aircraft with the same engine in the air in less time than it would take to set up a production line for the P-40. By now the executive head of the British Ministry of Aircraft Production (MAP), Freeman ordered 320 aircraft in March 1940. On 26 June 1940, MAP awarded a contract to Packard to build modified versions of the Rolls-Royce Merlin engines under licence; in September, MAP increased the first production order by 300."

[Spectre13]

Thanks for the replies so far guys....I did mistakenly omit one piece of info from my original post that may or may not be related to these incidents.... on both occasions on each bird, within minutes prior to the nose downs there were moment when it could be clearly heard that the motors were stuttering, not for a prolongued period but they definately cut off and restarted a few times. Again I know this could be battery charge issue but I did check the batteries from each bird afterwards and each had charge in them well beyond the motor 'cut-off' level.

Now I can't speak for my friend without speaking to him first to verify, but when this stuttering occured on my bird she was at full throttle. I mention this only because another thing I noticed was that the Stang had an issue whereas there would be no prop movement unless the throttle slider was almost at the halfway position, maybe this an issue with brushed motors? I don't know, I can fly (more often than not) but know reletavily nothing on the technical working of these great birds.

Another possibilty I have thought of could be interference, I intend to look into whether there is some levels of intereferance on our regular flying haunt.

[Spectre13]

In the Parkzone world, the design of the Spit is much better, in the Real word the P51 was a a mediocre machine until they fitted a Merlin into it lol.

Anyway, I digress. There are a couple of things to look out for.

1: check the batteries in the transmitter, the supplied AA batteries are a tad shorter than regular Duracell AA's and this can lead to random disconnects. Take the back off and every cell should be tight, if any fall out then try to bend the metal tabs out for that cell to get a better fit.

2: The stock molex battery connection in the model is terrible and really prone to random disconnects, this will cause the model to go dead in flight and most likely to a crash, I decided to fit Deans style connectors to my Spit to negate the chance of this happening again.

3: Were you shot down? not my 50 cal bullets but by someone on the same frequency? the 27Mhz band is pretty full and a kid with a toy car could be on the same frequency as your model, if there is interference, it will cause all manor of glitches.

Hope these tips help.

Sorry Radwell you must have posted this whilst I was posting my last reply, I shall look into your suggestions thoroughly, I admit I have heard not great things about the molex connectors fitted as stock in these flyers.

Many thanks.

[karlwb]

sounds like a faulty connection as it stuttered and you lost controls as well as engine,make sure the battery connections are solid before flight and check your transmitter batteries tightness.

with the standard nimh batteries you'll notice a gradual loss in engine power as the battery gets discharged,you can fly until the engine completely cuts and you should still have controls,but at the point where the engine power starts to drop dramatically i'm ready to land,because then you only got a very short time to complete discharge and engine cut off.
with lipo's,you got an inbuilt engine cut off because it's bad for the battery to get too discharged,that can catch you out!

[bailmeout]

:confused:Hi, sorry to sound like Uncle Albert!, but during the 'Wuhar' ,(as seen with documentries etc), not old enough to of witnessed myself!, ive seen many a footage with people sitting on the tail plane of Spit's whilst taxiing!, i dare say its to do with weight, unless they didnt have a clip on 'Skycam' for photo reconniscense in them days!:rolleyes:, why was this?. (its ok 2 answer please squeeze outa the closet ill keep it to myself.... promise!). B. ~o~

[ralphp]

Don't believe any of us are old enough! but hear go's....geek time!

Due to the light carictoistics of the tail...and bumpy ground some times on taxing, groung crew would sit on for a speedier movement of AC's....

See story below!

"In addition to these operational assignments, AB910 was held on charge by various maintenance units and, after mid-July 1944, she was relegated to support duties with 53 OTU at Hibaldstow and then with 527 Squadron (a radar calibration unit). On 14 February 1945 , whilst at Hibaldstow, AB910 famously flew with an unauthorised passenger. LACW Margaret Horton, a WAAF ground-crew fitter, had been sitting on the tail whilst the aircraft taxied out to the take-off point (as was standard practice) without the pilot, Flt Lt Neil Cox DFC, realising she was there. The pilot took off with Margaret still on the tail. The combination of her weight on the tail and her grip on the elevator very nearly had disastrous results but fortunately the pilot was able to regain control and one circuit later he landed with a very frightened WAAF still wrapped around the tail!"

[bailmeout]

Thanks for the info!, and for the amazing story of Margret, bet she left with the tail between her legs EH!.:eek: Still at least she had a good Tail to tell the grand children!.

[Anthony]

Haha yeah I remember that story; the woman in question was interveiwed in a programme hosted by Raymond Baxter, Douglas Bader and Bob Tuck in about 1976! Brilliant programme... I think it was called 'Spitfire', it's been shown once or twice through the years. :)