Why did my Spitfire crash?

[MalcolmS]

Hi Folks

As some of you know I recently bought a PZ Spitfire as I felt I had mastered the Cub and needed a new challenge (and wanted a scale warbird). I bought it and took it out the same day and to my delight it flew well however the landing wasn't great and I cracked the cowl and and there were also some cracks in the firewall which I fixed with 5min expoxy. The next time I took it out there was video evidence and it took to the sky, climbed nose up and then fell to the left and crashed with major damage to the fuselage, firewall and gearbox. :eek:

I have now nearly bought a new plane from our hosts at Squadron Leader and it is now back up and running but I am now a bit nervous about taking it out again.

I would appreciate any thoughts anybody would have as to why it crashed. Just for fun in the video you will also see some strange Cub behaviour but that was due to broken firewall since replaced and all fine (I suspect firewall was the Spit problem too but I cannot believe these machines are that fussy about their firewalls!).

Anyway here is the video link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_eTJGkazCI

I am sure it will make some of you smile or cringe. :o

And to prove I can fly a Cub reasonably have a look at the other videos on my Youtube site. ;)

Malcolm

[bobjyde]

I really feel for you, I am new to Flying RC Planes and after having a real go with the Super Cub I felt it was time for something more adventurous. After scouting the market I found and fell in love with the Park zone Spitfire and so I went out and got one :), I crashed on my very first flight due to no fault of mine:mad:, whilst in the air, I suddenly lost all control of the Spitfire, as it turned out, the wires had come lose from the white battery connectors.

I ordered replacement parts and changed the connector this time using Deans clips, took her out and what do you know, I crashed again, I was so mad that I did more damage to the plane than the crash did. Again I ordered parts, put her together and this time I did a check on the controls, :D, it turned out that for some reason that I still can't explain, the rudder control had been reversed, the only way to correct it was to flick the switch on the Tx.

Anyway went out the give her a good test and it was fine, spent about 45min flying only landing to change batteries. After my fourth battery change, as I was flying, all of a sudden the wings of the spitfire just snapped and down to earth came my baby.

I am beginning to question the quality of the Spitfire and though I have ordered replacement parts, after putting her together I don't think I'll be taking her flying again.

I am now looking at the market for an alternative, until then I will fly my Super Cub.

You can check it out here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV-o5cywrP0

[rleed]

MalcomS, It appears that part of this problem is you are launching bolth aircraft at to steep an angle and not allowing them to reach sufficient flying speed. The Spitfire is a wonderful flyer once it is up to speed. On the video it clearly stalled due to lack of speed. Don't be afraid to give these aircraft a firm throw into the wind and let them remain level to accelerate. Good luck next time.:)

[BloODWicko]

Hi Malcom,

I have been flying Parkzone spits all summer and think they are great!! I also think you need to either throw it harder or at less of an angle. Then climb your spit gently upwards, dont go to steep, once the full power kicks in you can climb higher. Also when you launch only use 75% power as they have a habit of pulling off to the left, which can lead to a crash also.

I was taught to get it high safely then play about with it, it gives you time to react if you loose it.

Dont give up though these things are great!!

[Frank]

Strange I should find this so late :-( So sorry for that.

I got my Parkzone Spit today, at around 7:30am. Sadly I was out all day and when I got home we put it together and did some preflight checks. The throttle was fine, some tweaking required for the ailerons and horizontal stab, but all in all, it was fine. Lovely looking aircraft by the way.

So, we took the Spit out into the fields behind my house and launched it. It flew brilliantly, climbed, I banked it to the left, and we flew it around. Lovely flyer. I put it down, with a bit of a bump, and we launched it again. We tried range. I stood a good 50 meters away whilst someone else launched her, and we flew it that way. It took off, climbed over my head, and then we banked it right for some aerobatics (its a Spitfire!). It flew well, but then I got it in an inverted dive, and things went wrong...

As I was downfield of the Spit, my perception of where its nose was pointing was swayed incredibly. I pulled up, thinking that it would get up again before the ground, instead of nosing down, flying it inverted out of the dive. Sadly, it did not recover, and dived into the ground. Ow...

The cowling was destroyed, hanging off the motor. The prop was snapped in 2, the spinner shattered, and firewall broken off. Terrible. BUT, I have just ordered £13 worth of repairs. So, alls well! :-D

However, what I found was indeed, the Spit pulled to the right due to torque on takeoff at 100% throttle up as others have noticed. Climbing at 75% would be fine until you gain about 200ft of altitude in which case you can play with it. One piece of advice, DO NOT GO TOO LOW! I found myself playing far too low, about 100ft, and if you loose altitude suddenly, you can NOT recover it in time. Its a very delicate operation, the Spit. Try and do a standard circuit for the first time.

Climb straight ahead until 250ft. Turn left 90 degrees and fly straight for a few seconds. Turn a further 90 left and fly downwind so you pass yourself. This makes a rectangle shape form. When its past you, turn it a further 90 degrees until its nearly parralel with you. Then another 90 degrees to complete that rectangle and put it down. It gives you an idea of how the Spit controls. Do all this on around 50%-75%, nice and slow...

[Dizzee Rascal]

The standard circuit mentioned by Frank has 5 different "legs" and is basically what is flown by real, full size aircraft and is defiantly worth knowing.

Remember that depending on the strength of wind at the time, your "down wind" leg will be the fastest leg (as the aircraft will be flying with the wind as opposed to against the wind) so make sure you don’t travel too far as it may be difficult to get back and land before your near empty battery gives up!
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g129/d_rascal/Circuit.jpg

[Frank]

Yep, standard VFR circuit. Good illustration! Thanks for explaining it a bit more. This is one of the standard procedures we perform in gliders, now obviously an RC Spitfire is powered, but the same applies.

[Dizzee Rascal]

Not just VFR but also an IFR circuit Frank!

I thought Gliders just bounced off of clouds and went where ever the wind blew them, I didn't realise there was any choice as to where they went! tee hee :D:)

[Frank]

Oh yes, IFR. But most of the time IFR is vectored by radar, but lets not get involved with that now, this is an RC board! :-D

Sorry to hijack another's post, but I need some advice DEARLY...

My doomed Spit has now got a new cowling, firewall, prop and spinner through the post, ready to be repaired. The repairing itself is not what bothers me, but more so, what to do once I have her airworthy again. Obviously I'd like to take it up and see if I can indeed do a standard circuit into the wind. But what worries me is how I can avoid what happened last time.

Basically, last time we always turned left after takeoff. Its the way we were taught primarily when we glided and flew in real aircraft, and I'm just used to left-hand turnouts. So we turn left. I got as far as the downwind and turning onto base, when I put on two much left bank and it got upside down. Me being at an awkward angle to the aircraft pulled up from the dive, thinking it could pull out. Unfortunately, it was in such an angle of attack that if I had pushed back, not pulled up, it would have survived. Inverted, but, survived...

So, what can be done to resurrect the mistake I made?

I'm thinking, no 100% throttle unless we get a stall for one. 75% on the takeoff, once we've gained altitude, reduce to 50%-75%. Also, nice small taps of the controls, no large banks. Just try and maintain altitude. Lastly, the range is 2.5k, so don't be afraid to stretch the pattern out a bit. The last flight was very tight, as I was still nervous as to the range. Now however, we know its a bit better.

Does this sound good? And could anyone shed some light on what else to do? Help would be GREATLY appriciated! :-D

[Dizzee Rascal]

Basically, last time we always turned left after takeoff. Its the way we were taught primarily when we glided and flew in real aircraft, and I'm just used to left-hand turnouts. So we turn left. I got as far as the downwind and turning onto base, when I put on two much left bank and it got upside down. Me being at an awkward angle to the aircraft pulled up from the dive, thinking it could pull out. Unfortunately, it was in such an angle of attack that if I had pushed back, not pulled up, it would have survived. Inverted, but, survived...

So, what can be done to resurrect the mistake I made?

I'm thinking, no 100% throttle unless we get a stall for one. 75% on the takeoff, once we've gained altitude, reduce to 50%-75%. Also, nice small taps of the controls, no large banks. Just try and maintain altitude. Lastly, the range is 2.5k, so don't be afraid to stretch the pattern out a bit. The last flight was very tight, as I was still nervous as to the range. Now however, we know its a bit better.

Does this sound good? And could anyone shed some light on what else to do? Help would be GREATLY appriciated! :-D

Use less roll in the turn from base to final (try and avoid using aileron if you can help it during all low and slow manoeuvres) and a small amount of rudder, reducing power as you do so. (Your accident may have been caused buy wing stall if you applied too much aileron and were slow enough). Also, don't under estimate the amount of torque these little beasts can have on a full battery!

Or

Depending if where you are flying is large and open enough to do so, aim for a long final so that you can turn from base to final at a higher level so you have time to deal with any wing drops. I would say always avoid over flying large trees no matter how light the wind may seem at ground level, doing so at a slow airspeed will cause the tree tops to reach out and grab your spitfire (yes- it happened to me!).

[denali]

I would still use full throttle on take off but try getting more altitude before you do anything.Fly it high until you get comfortable.The extra altitude gives you much more time to recover.

[MalcolmS]

Hello everyone

Finally I have had a chance to try my Spit again and it was a resounding success! :D This really is an easy plane to fly - I now realise that the last time I launched it far too steeply in no wind so the poor thing just stalled. I see others on the Fallen section have done the same. So for all you newbies:

LAUNCH THE SPITFIRE ALMOST LEVEL INTO THE WIND!!

To prove I did it I attached my pen cam to my sunglasses and here is the result:
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jp8MYtxHE4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jp8MYtxHE4)

So I am now over my fears and ready to fly some more!! Thanks to everyone for their advice

Happy Flying

Malcolm

[Frank]

Hello everyone

Finally I have had a chance to try my Spit again and it was a resounding success! :D This really is an easy plane to fly - I now realise that the last time I launched it far too steeply in no wind so the poor thing just stalled. I see others on the Fallen section have done the same. So for all you newbies:

LAUNCH THE SPITFIRE ALMOST LEVEL INTO THE WIND!!

To prove I did it I attached my pen cam to my sunglasses and here is the result:
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jp8MYtxHE4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jp8MYtxHE4)

So I am now over my fears and ready to fly some more!! Thanks to everyone for their advice

Happy Flying

Malcolm
I still can't believe the RANGE of this bird! I now know my downfall; I've been keeping the plane to close to me, hence making the movements too tight and eratic. This is my third lot of parts now, and the fuselage itself is starting to give way. Time to get out the masking tape!

But basically, I think I should take the Spit further out. MUCH further out.

[MalcolmS]

Hi Folks

Despite increasing winds here in the UK had a bash at flying the Spit again today and even though the wind was 10-15mph it flew out of my hands and handled fairly well despite the wind :cool:. I would say that it did get blown around a bit and so you do have to watch it very carefully but being "3 mistakes high" meant there were no problems. The landing wasn't great as the wind was variable with some nasty gusts :eek: but I was brave enough to try her on high rate once airborne and got some nice rolls in as the Spit will not roll in low rate.
Sorry no video as my little pencam slipped down slightly when fixed to my glasses and so I got plenty of sky but no plane!:mad:
For those new to the plane the tip is launch her in low rate (full throttle, level, into the wind) and get her up high then switch to high rate for some fun and back to low when you come back in. The Spit will glide nicely in the wind but today was tricky with the gusts. Might be heading towards a lippo to get more speed (and therefore better in the wind) but for now am very happy that I could fly the Spitfire well in the wind.

All in all a good flight with great plane.

Happy landings all

Malcolm

[hunterm8]

hi malcomn

i am new to this rc plane lark and have a super cub to prepare for the spit hopefully for christmas, although i snapped the tail of today so might be abit longer :(. could you tell me what a lippo is?

thanks mick

[MalcolmS]

Hi Mick

I too am relatively new to this r/c world (only got my first plane -a SuperCub- in June) and have only heard a bit about lipos but here is what I know:

A Lipo is a lithium polymer battery that provides higher voltage at greater current for a longer time. They also tend to be lighter so therefore have a higher power to weight ratio. The stock battery for the Spitfire is 10.8V 1000mAh. The recommended lipo (in the manual) is 11.1V 2200mAh which will in theory allow the plane to run faster for twice as long. However lipos require a special charger and get very warm when charging and so care needs to be taken.

If you are new to this r/c lark I would stick with the stock setup on the Spitfire as this will certainly be fast enough to start with!! You cannot take your eye off the plane for one second unless you are very high up to give you time to find it again. :D
My first landing was rather poor due to being distracted for a brief second and this resulted in cracked cowl and damaged prop and I was going slowly anyway!!!

Good luck with the Spit as it does look great and flies the best of the three PZ warbirds. Just make sure it is launched level, full throttle and into the wind (although I have since flown her in no wind and it was ok)

Good luck

Malcolm

[hunterm8]

thanks for the explaination malcolm.
repaired and flew my supercub today landed safely 3 times so i am feeling confident again..
so maybe a spit for christmas after all :)

cheers mick

[FADEC]

Just returned from my second disasterous Spitfire flight. The first one took place on Christmas day and ended after about 20 seconds, the aircraft zoomed off rather quickly and I was surprised at how well it performed. Alas the field I was operating it in was a tad small and the Spit had a collision with a large obstacle of the oak variety! The port wing clipped the tree and the bird nosed over and crashed sustaining heavy front end damage. My other half promptly stormed off in a huff as she had bought it for me as a Christmas present. Thinking it was right off until I found Squadron Leader, it was then lovingly repaired with a new firewall, cowl, engine, prop etc etc. It looked the nuts when finished and my confidence in my ability to fly it returned.

Took it out today as the weather is perfect for flying, drove around for a good hour trying to find a suitable field and parked up. I did a control test and the batteries were all fully charged. Back to the sun and into wind I launched level at full power. The aircraft made for the ground but I added some back pressure and it climbed albeit slowly. Once under control I gave it some right aileron, it rolled and the nose dropped, I managed to correct it but then the aircraft just descended into the ground. I am almost positive that I did not stall it.

When reasembling it after the first uncontrolled flight into terrain, I re-rigged the elevator control line making sure that the elevator was true to the tailplane. I am starting to wonder whether PZ rig it slightly up elevator for when the control trim is in the null position? This may explain why this time instead of going up it went down. Also on both very short flights aileron input by me has resulted in the aircraft making for a spiral descent.

It is probable that with some time and TLC, I will be able to get this particular airframe up and running again. Total flight time of just under a minute and 2 nasty conflicts with the ground cant be good though. This is turning into what might become an expensive hobby!

[FADEC]

Deep joy! Successful third flight today yes! Flew like dream although she looks a bit worse for wear now, covered in tape and stuck together with glue. Sustained minor damage on landing as I had reasembled the firewall with glue last night so I shall have to order a replacement.

Well pleased!

[Radweld]

I've had my Spitfire since December but only just started to fly it, I got to grips with slower easier models and to be honest I was quite scared of the Spit. I know from experience they can wing stall quite easy and you have to plan your launch, flight area and most importantly landing before you take off. I've had 5 flights, 4 perfect landings and one bounce (no damage) due to the winds being way too high for flying.

I spoke to a friend whos been flying for ages and he gave me some tips. For take off, no more than 35 degrees from horizontal into the wind and try to level out as soon as you can, don't try to turn hard while the speed is low as it will just stall and drop like a stone (the real ones did this as well) It was hard to tell from the video on page 1 but it looked like the wind was going right to left, the power was cut right before the stall and remember the wind speed higher up can be faster than what it is at ground level.

My friend said to not worry too much about where you land, its natural to try to land it close to you but then this makes you panic and you end up crash landing. Its really is better to have power in reserve in case you need to do a "by" and fly another circuit in order to ensure a good landing, always land into the wind, always take it out quite far and bring it in gently, reducing speed and height as you bring it in, cut power the moment before you touch down.

At the moment Im just concentrating on flying circuits and getting to understand the way it flys, i'm not a proficient flier so im taking my time before I try anything drastic. I know how to perform loops, cuban 8's, split-s's etc as I've been practicing these on my Aerobird Swift but i'm going to leave these manouvers till the weather is nicer.

Love the model though.