2 Bladed Prop Problems

[RGPuk]

Originally Posted by scottymech48

Any chance of filling the hole with araldite and then re-drilling to correct size or am I talking b-ll---s again?

If needs are pressing, that is a solution (but better with Milliput) - a tad tricky to get the drilling centre absolutely bang-on though - and it still won't help fit the spinner without even further, more drastic surgery. ie. by milling the hub thickness by about 4mm.

The crux of this is that SL have been lumbered by Horizon, with a 12x12 option that remains unavailable, and an 11x8, that is available, but simply doesn't fit - rendering Jamies entire stock of 2 blade spinners useless for those customers that want to go the 2 blade prop and spinner route, sourcing from him.

I'm confident that Jamie will get this sorted - but what a pain for him and his customers. All particularly ridiculous that it's all about something so simple and so very straight forward.

Ro.

[SmartMartY]

I suppose I'd better finish reading the idiots guide then if it recommends 12 x 12 beasts

There are no doubt many ways to skin this particular cat, but why should we have to skin anything that's supposed to be fit for its particular purpose?

I've every faith in Jamie to resolve this anomally, failing that HH will be getting some sort of communication from me as well

[RGPuk]

Originally Posted by chossy

what is the diameter of the hole in the prop i will measure my apc prop collers see if they will fit i think they are 6mm OD and reduce down to 5,4,3,2mm.

any back to the 12 x 12 prop taken from the 109 manual

If a two-bladed propeller is used with the stock motor, we suggest using a 12 x 12 electric propeller.

That is one monster prop

The offending 2B prop has a bush internal diameter of approx. 8.5mm - whereas the 3B standard is approx. 7mm. Not an adaptor spec that immediately comes to hand.

The 2B 12x12 that's recommended seems to be a bit of a large wierdo and does clearly break the accepted guide that Simon pointed out - ie. the pitch being somewhere around half the diameter.

Perhaps this all smacks of a case of 'ass and elbow syndrome' by the US based boffins in the product accessory development bunker.

Maybe, some lank-haired, spotty High School dude on work experience, incorrectly ordered a container of 100,000 12x12's from Lin Hue Wongs Happy Sunshine Dragon Propeller Factory - and they are just trying to get rid.

Ro.

[SmartMartY]

I knew I should've got a Mustang Yes the idiots guide does categorically state 12x12, and reference to another motor WTF is going on? I spent ages last night trimming, aligning etc etc both the 109 and the T-28 (and knackering one of my new electric retracts to boot, damn!!! damn!!! damn!!!)

Still nothing from anyone regarding the blades / adapters, maybe tomorrow eh?

I've managed to fit, with the use of a extra bush, one of the props to my T-28 (not flown), but it's smaller / lower pitch than I currently use so it looks like these'll be going back.

[RGPuk]

To be fair Mart, the props 'look' right, in size and pitch - and I would be comfortable giving them a whirl (Ho Ho Ho - er sorry ) - if they fitted.

Ro.

[SmartMartY]

Really Ro? Oh well, I trust your judgment so I may get some (not those crappy looking APC ones). Still have the problem what to do with these 4 I bought though.

[startazz]

Well this has put me right off of getting a another prop and spinner for my 109 now as i saw someone on youtube put a two bladed prop and spinner on his and it was made by PZ and fitted a treat and it looked like the three bladed prop apart from it being a two bladed one of course

[startazz]

Just found the part numbers for the two bladed prop and spinner but this is the yank one so don't know if it is different from ours but it shouldn't be,looks like the prop is a apc but different part number than SL ones.

2 blade prop - APC12012E
2 blade spinner - PKZ4908

[RGPuk]

Right - I've been digging for FACTS.

I will also state the obvious for clarity:

1 - The 109 has a dedicated and supplied, 3B prop and spinner - an important element of the 109 scale characteristics.

2 - E-Flite supply a 2B spinner (PKZ4908) and recommend PKZ4908, a 2B 12x12 for use with it WITH the standard motor.

3 - The stock 109 motor is low Kv to suit the standard, scale 3B prop.

4 - The E-Flite Apprentice motor is a drop-in fit on the 109 - BUT is high Kv and DOES NOT suit the 3B prop, and will result in a current mismatch and therefore associated problems.

5 - Therefore, use of the Apprentice motor MUST be used together with the Apprentice 2B prop EFLP11080E.

6 - So, Horizon have supplied EFLP11080E for use with a 109 but ONLY with an Apprentice motor.

7 - Jamie has a stock of these.

8 - Jamie has no stock from Horizon of the 2B 12x12 for use with the standard 109 motor.

9 - Seemingly aggressive pitch of this prop is to accommodate the low Kv (working power band at lower revs) of the standard motor to produce the thrust needed to get Herr Hartmann aloft.

10 - There has been perhaps a lack of clarity by Horizon to Jamie as to why they supply the Apprentice 2B prop, and particularly that it needs to be used only in conjunction with the (drop-in fit) Apprentice motor (producing it's useful power at higher revs).

With all this in mind, I have some semblance of understanding as to how Jamie has a ton of 2B spinners, a listing for the 12x12 AND also a listing for the 2B Apprentice prop too.

It all also explains why Mart and me have nice personal collections of a 2B spinner with 2B props that don't fit.

HOWEVER - I do not understand how, even with an Apprentice motor, the 109 2B spinner could ever be used with the Apprentice prop, as the prop hub dimensions DO NOT allow use of the 109 prop adaptor that the spinner relies on for attachment - plus the prop hole diameter is also too large for that adaptor.

Got all that? I'll be asking questions later.

Ro.

PS. My head hurts now and I'm going back to bed.

[startazz]

I'm not sure i have?? only joking mate and thanks for making the obvious clear

[RGPuk]

Originally Posted by SmartMartY

Really Ro? Oh well, I trust your judgment so I may get some (not those crappy looking APC ones). Still have the problem what to do with these 4 I bought though.

Sorry Mart, I didn't make that very clear.

The props that I think 'look' right, are the ones we have, that don't fit and maybe don't have sufficient bite in the pitch.

It seems unlikely () that Horizon / Parkzone would so daft as to recommend the 12x12 if it were no good - although THAT prop I think might look rather large and a bit weird - plus you'd have 1 inch less ground clearance when using the undercarriage.

This is a pain but I'm sure that Jamie will sort it - when he knows how to - or indeed if it's sortable.

My money is on our 2B's going back and us having to use the 12x12's - oh yes - WHEN Horizon decides to get them to Jamie.

Ro.

[SmartMartY]

Thanks for making that as clear as mud Ro Only kidding M8. So to utilise these new 2B props I need to buy a new motor and different prop adapter? Lilke I said, I wish I'd got the Mustang. I wonder if a larger 3B props would produce better results with the stock gear?

There are plenty of upgrade possibilities on other forums, but I would like to get the feel of her flying as stock before going down that route.

[RGPuk]

Originally Posted by SmartMartY

Thanks for making that as clear as mud Ro Only kidding M8. So to utilise these new 2B props I need to buy a new motor and different prop adapter? Lilke I said, I wish I'd got the Mustang. I wonder if a larger 3B props would produce better results with the stock gear?

There are plenty of upgrade possibilities on other forums, but I would like to get the feel of her flying as stock before going down that route.

It does indeed look like the motor/ prop adaptor fix is the only way to use the 2B's we have - at the moment - I've had comms from Jamie today that indicate we should be patient.

We'll get this sorted and both flying 100% stock, at 100%. Remember, we have the chance to compare our birds like-for like as my new 109 (the old one being away giving the Taliban rooty-toot) still has to maiden. So we'd better keep our eyes on the weather eh?

PLUS - I'm continuing to do Uber prop research.

Ro.

PS. I'd still choose the 109 over the Mustang - can't stand girlie American stuff.
(That should cause a Friday night fit or two. INCOMING!!!)

[RGPuk]

Re: 109

The flight performance of this plane is as similar as we could get it to the T-28 and Corsair. It uses the 1800 3s battery, same as the F4U and T-28. Battery is not worked hard as we have flown this set-up a lot during the summer on hot days. We are very excited with the Bf-109 and worked very hard to provide the most scale Z-foam warbird yet. We tested a 2-blade prop with this motor and it needed an APC 12 x 12E to get similar flight performance, but the 3-blade looks so much better.

Hope you guys enjoy it!

Matt Andren
Parkzone/Hobbyzone Product Development
Horizon Hobby

So, I'm pretty convinced that the 2B 11x8's Mart and me have right now, probably won't do the business - plus they simply don't fit (the Apprentice hub/boss/shaft dimensions seemingly a bit of a mongrel compared to the 109 requirements).

Not often one has to return stuff to SL eh? Mind you this is not of Jamie's making.

I have however now sourced a prop adaptor and shims (3.90 squidlies) to let me choose my own make of prop .......

...... and of course I just had to use this issue as an excuse to get myself a slick watt-meter/self balancer/battery checker gizmo. Well - it's an essential bit of kit isn't it?

At least the package will be small enough to approach under The Chancellors radar.

Ro.

[SmartMartY]

Well my replacement 2 bladed props turned up today, thanks SL, the others will be in the post back to you today. It would seem that nothing is going to be straightforward with with damned plane is it? After seeing how Ro had fitted his I was prepared to tweak things by adding a washer behind the prop, and trimming an extra groove in the the spinner (still to do). I tightened to prop adapter and loosely fitted the spinner, and personally I still think it looks cr@p. Anyhoo, I now want remove said prop but I can't spinner plate and prop turn, but the adapter collet is gripped firmly to the motor shaft, and the adapter won't loosen I haven't got the time to faff with it now, I just hope I'm in the right frame of mind when I get home tonight.

I can feel an email to HZ coming on about this whole prop farce, because so far the 109 has been a major disappointment to me. I just want the damned thing up in the air with minimal fuss, and I feel that the HZ / PZ boffins just haven't done their research properly on this one

Rant over